03 I Greed and Fear with Marg Downey

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Evelyn: Darling, listen, I want to warn you, there are curse words ahead. Also, if you haven't watched the episode, what are you doing? Go now and watch it! We wouldn't want things to get spoiled now, would we.

Helen: Good evening. I'm Helen Norville.

Dale: And I'm Dale Jennings. You're watching news at Six.

Lisa: I'm Lisa, someone's been shopping at DJ's, Millar.

Leigh: And I'm Leigh, take the pressure down, Sales.

Lisa: Oh, thank God for the touch of John Farnham at the end of that episode, because the pressure was through the roof. Welcome to the Newsreader Companion Podcast, Episode 3, Greed and Fear.

Leigh: Let's just remind people about the key moments. We're still in 1987 and it is the stock market crash that's the backdrop for this episode and you've got to guess that's going to be bad news for guys like Little Charlie.

Lisa: Helen's secret is very close to being revealed by gossip columnists, so we see that dreadful engagement suggestion. On Gerry's advice, Dale thinks it's a great idea they get married.

Leigh: That was, um, yeah, I could see why Helen wasn't exactly swept off her feet by that proposal. I mean, Dale and Gerry seem like they're becoming... quite good buddies. But it must have been one of my favourite moments in this episode was when Helen delivers that absolute blasting of Evelyn and I'll have a bit more to say about that later.

Lisa: Yeah, and Evelyn is dealing with a pretty big family problem of her own in this episode, Kay's addiction. And also, what the hell is going on with Helen and Charlie?

Leigh: Very intriguing. Look, hang around because we've got the incredible Marg Downey coming up later this episode who plays Evelyn Walters.

Lisa: and costume designer Zed Dragojlovich who will have all the inside stories on pulling together the outfits for this show including that salmon suit worn by Noelene in this episode.

Leigh: Oh man, when she appeared wearing that, wasn't that just something.

Lisa: Someone's been shopping at DJ's.

Leigh: Do you feel like Rob is a good fit for Noelene?

Lisa: Oh, I love him. I do. And I, I've, I just think they have a lot of love and warmth together. Whether they're a good fit, I don't know.

Leigh: Look, I, I've got quite an imagined story for the future of Rob and Noelene. I feel like he's a well intentioned dude, but I think ultimately he might not be smart enough for her. And so in my mind, I've given this way more thought than it really deserves, but in my mind I feel like that he's a good starter husband and he's going to make a really nice ex husband. I feel like he'll still be great with the kids, he'll be a very involved dad…

Lisa: there'll be no fight over the finances..

Leigh: No fight over the finances, they'll have a very functional relationship but I think ultimately he's gonna end up with a nice little blonde makeup artist and she's gonna end up single, but she'll be running a very successful independent production company by her mid forties and she's then gonna sell that and be rich and make a lot of money.

Lisa: I think you're too harsh on Rob. And can we just jump into that relationship actually? ‘Cause the two of them. It was interesting on the stock market floor. This is now the big story of this episode. Uh, the stock market has crashed. It's 1987 and they head to the, uh, stock market and no one is talking to Noelene, but they'll talk to Rob.

Noelene: Excuse me, if I could just ask you for a minute of your time. We're from News At S...

Sir, could I just ask you for two minutes?

Rob: Mate, Rob Rickards. News at six. Good. Um, are you worried about what's gonna happen today?

Leigh: Yeah, I know and I must say actually as a female journalist of a certain age, I do know that vibe and I, I dunno if you remember it 'cause we both, as young reporters covered state politics. You in Queensland, me in New South Wales, and I remember how I was one of the only women there. And in press conferences and stuff, I would feel like it would be hard for me to get a look in.

Lisa: It's in our lifetime that one of our colleagues, the ABC's Juanita Phillips, had to fight to be able to wear pants when she was covering state politics in Queensland.

Leigh: That's incredible isn’t it.

Lisa: This is not ancient history here, right? In that scene and talking about the sexism, it's Rob who, when she comes out in that great suit, says, ‘But you're still going to wear skirts, right?’

Leigh: I mean, Rob, as I say, although he's a well intentioned guy, kind of like Geoff, you know, he is a product of that era.

Um, I thought I might just give people a bit of a, you know, stock market crash 87 for dummies, um, in case people don't remember it. So it was, the worst day was called Black Monday and the stock market lost 25 percent in one day. It was just absolute pandemonium. And so it didn't just affect rich people, it affected all Australians because a lot of people are exposed to the share market through their retirement savings and so on and through their businesses.

And so people were absolutely terrified that we were going to see a 1930s style depression. And, also, there was a real fear that it was going to get even worse because people were going to rush to sell their shares before they went even lower.

Lindsay: How's little Chuck doing?

Dennis: Oh mate, it's worse than yesterday. He's obliterated. Him, Holmes A Court, John Elliott. Highest profile loser so far.

Lindsay: Oh, fuck.

Leigh: And it wasn't just a news story for the network. The network's boss, Charlie, has lost all his money. Yes, and look, we haven't spoken much about Charlie, um, he is a very typical player of that era. The fact that we're watching this show in 2023 probably and we know that he's the son of a major media baron, it's probably leading people to think of James Packer and Lachlan Murdoch. But actually, if you remember that we're watching a show in the 1980s, he's more of a Christopher Skase or Alan Bond type.

Now, for anyone who doesn't remember, there was this era in 1980s Australian television where these huge high-profile businessmen who didn't really know anything about TV ran two of the three major television networks.

So they're these guys who don't come from the world of TV, but they think they know more than they actually do. And then they come an absolute sudden cropper like Charlie does in the 87 stock market crash. So what happens to Charlie where he pretty much loses an absolute fortune overnight and then is humiliatingly splashed across the paper is actually pretty close to the reality of what did happen to those guys.

Lindsay: Little Chuck, little Chuck, little Chuck is fucked, little Chuck, little Chuck, little Chuck is fucked, little Chuck, little Chuck is fucked, he's fucked, he's fucked, fucked, fucked!

Lisa: And then what's Lindsay's reaction? It's to say, let's go to dinner on the network and spend whatever is left. He is absolutely celebrating Chucky's downfall.

Leigh: I can't help it, I love Lindsay, I just, he's, he's an awful human being, but he's just such a great character.

Lisa: We finally know what's going on with Kay. So we've been wondering for these past couple of episodes, I'm sure there were listeners who were probably more clued into it than us, but I just kept obsessing about how much vodka she was drinking. Yeah, it is. It's an addiction. It's a drug addiction.

Leigh: I mean, the most memorable scene for me in this episode is the one where the parents, um, go to the flat. Oh my god, imagine walking in on that.

Geoff: Kay! Kay! Kay, it's Daddy. It's Daddy, darling. Come on, darling. Come on. Come on. Come on.

Marg: Ambulance. Uh, it's my daughter. I think she might have overdosed.

Geoff: Darling.

Leigh: I mean, we almost never hear about heroin these days, but in the 1980s, along with AIDS, I'd say it's the social issue I most remember. And that's because Bob Hawke, the Prime Minister of the day, his daughter had a heroin addiction, and he broke down famously talking about it.

Lisa: Yeah, and I remember Helen Garner's book, uh, that she wrote about..

Leigh: Oh yeah, Monkey Grip.

Lisa: Yeah, and, and just so all of that was the time, the era. The other thing that really stuck with me with this episode, of course, is this scenario with the newspaper gossip writer Donna Gillies, she's got the gossip on Helen. Um, finally, a word is used to describe, it's schizophrenia that we're now told about Helen and they're trying to then work out what to do with it. Here's the scene that really hit me hard.

Helen: Tonight, share prices drop around the world.

Dale: And stock markets are gripped by frantic selling.

Helen: Good evening. I'm Helen Norville.

Lisa: Helen's on air talking about the stock market, but she's sucking back the tears because all she can think about is this article that's going to drop, that's going to blow her life up. I don't know about you Salesy, but after 30 years in this business, there have been times where I've had to suck back the tears on air because something's going on in your personal life that you need to try and push down. To then be that wall of neutrality and expertise and..

Leigh: Or sometimes also what would happen to me is something would appear in a story on the show that would be triggering for something with me that happened in my private life and then you'd have to maintain composure.

So I remember a few weeks after my father died at his funeral. Um, the song True Blue by John Williams was played and then this story came on at the end of the show and the whole bed of the story was that piece of music and it, and it was like, Oh my God, now I've got to back up and just keep carrying on. It's, you know, really, really difficult.

Leigh: Why is Helen so pally with Charlie, is it a power move?

Lisa: I don't know how this has happened.

Leigh: Yeah. Is there a genuine frisson between them or is it just straight power play? I've got no idea.

Lisa: Yeah, same. I'm baffled by that. And is it going to turn into something or?

Leigh: I don't, I don't know because Charlie's kind of repulsive, right? but then Helen's so kind of odd that I just wonder if she's just trying to suck up to little Charlie.

Helen: I'm terribly sorry for barging in, but I need your help. I need help pulling an article from The Sun. It's, it's a very invasive piece and if it, if it's published, it's going to be very bad for me and very bad for your network.

Lisa: I don't know, but can I also just say that awful proposal from Dale. I mean, what is the guy thinking?

Dale: I think we should go see Donna alone. Gerry said if we promise to prioritise her for future stories.

Helen: I don't want her in our lives, Dale. But we could offer a major story. What if we offer, uh, an engagement?

Lisa: And that's the proposal?

Leigh: I know, and Helen quite rightly is like, oh mate, come on.

Lisa: And the other scene that I thought about with Dale and Helen and their relationship right at the beginning when they're at Jerry and his wife's place.

Group Singing: Say nighty nighty and kiss me, night night darling, night night, just hold me tight and tell me you'll miss me. When I'm alone and blue as can be, Dream a little dream of me..

Lisa: Gerry and his daughter are there, they're playing the piano, they're all lovey dovey family wise. The look on Dale's face is that, this is what I want. So even though he's battling with his sexuality, he has this goofy grin on his face, he tilts his head towards Helen, that's right at the beginning of the episode, and then he's proposing to Helen. So I feel we came full circle with that, but still, what he wants out of life, he's not getting.

Leigh: Yeah, right. Interesting.

Evelyn: I last spoke to Morris at 4pm just to see if there was any way to authorise the sale. He told me Kay sold those shares several months ago. She's lying to our faces. And it's not the first time. I don't know what more I can do. I need you to address it.

Lisa: So the woman who plays Evelyn so fabulously is Marg Downey and she's with us now. Marg, hello.

Marg: Hello, it's so nice to be here.

Leigh: Marg Evelyn's one of my favourite characters because I just find her so rich in terms of her complexity. Tell us a bit about how you view Evelyn.

Marg: It's interesting because when I was asked to audition for it, I thought, what an intriguing sort of choice to suggest me for this role, but as soon as I got the script I thought I can do this. I've met these women. Dare I say it there are a couple of women who were friends of my mother's. Well, she wasn't terribly close to them for this very reason and, you know, she was reminiscent of them, those sort of people who are the power behind the throne and sort of, um, although they look as though they might not be manipulating things behind the scenes. In fact, they're very powerful.

Lisa: Oh, yeah. So Evelyn might be behind her husband, but man, she's pulling all the strings.

Marg: She is. And she's across so many things. Um, she's obviously a very, very smart, capable woman and she can do anything from cooking a roast, cleaning the swimming pool, being across their finances and their stocks and shares and understanding the politics of the newsroom. Um, she's absolutely a powerhouse. And I think we've probably in our careers all crossed paths with people like that.

Leigh: 100%. Yeah. She was so familiar to me, even though I couldn't immediately, you know, name somebody, but there was something so familiar. In fact, she, it's interesting, you said that she reminded you of some of your mother's friends because when, as soon as you said that, I thought of the mother of one of my friends, and she was the kind of woman who would ask you questions like, and dear, what does your father do?

Marg: Yes, yes.

Leigh: People who are preoccupied with status.

Lisa: Can I ask you about that really powerful scene when Helen comes to the door and she's pounding on it and she gives you a serve like we have not seen before. How much of that was scripted and how much was improvised?

Marg: It, was improvised on Anna's part and not improvised on mine. I'm a dag and a nerd and very script bound. Anna, on the other hand, is fantastic at improvising, feeling it in the moment, changing the script. Um, so. It's a matter of kind of going with that. I found it a little bit nerve wracking, but it really worked because I didn't know what was going to appear at that door. And I opened it and. I don't know if I'm allowed to swear, but

Leigh: Go for it.

Marg: Whatever, you know, you are a fucking bitch.

Helen: Evelyn, you are a fucking bitch. I mean, I knew that you were low, but I didn't think even you would stoop this low. I didn't think that even you were capable of that.

Evelyn: I'm sorry, I don't know what you're referring to.

Helen: You know exactly what I'm referring to.

Marg: And it's quite confronting. I mean, it was bloody confronting. I'm sure that wasn't in the script. That wasn't the opening line. So it was like, oh my God.

Helen: You have done nothing with your life except stand in the shadows and try and tear everyone down. And the fact that you both stand on this moral high ground, looking down your nose, judging everyone. I want you to know that I know exactly who you are. And I know exactly what you both stand for.

Marg: And the funny thing is Anna and I really hadn't crossed paths much throughout the production because there was one scene in series one where we were at a party and I was really frosty to her, really rude. So this was our next interaction in the series.

Lisa: We saw it on your face, like your facial moves..

Leigh: Oh, that's one of my favourites. There's this cutaway and it's just, your face is so beautiful because It's like you're conveying, or Evelyn is conveying, um, oh, this vulgarity, but then also there's this just a hint of satisfaction on your face.

Marg: It's all of the above, isn't it? It's a, it's a blend of being shocked, but then she knew completely what she'd been up to, of course.

Leigh: That's why she's such a delicious character, because of the combination of that, well, you've got to do everything properly, and she's very proper, but then also this kind of undercurrent of the skullduggery.

Marg: Oh, I know. It's just a wonderful role.

Lisa: Can you please answer a question for us that Salesy was obsessed about? Why did you just want to keep feeding sausages and chips to Kay on election night? What was that about?

Marg: I don't think that I ever even asked that question. I think she was trying to sort of get down a dirty Evelyn style.

Leigh: You'll eat these goddamn sausages and chips!

Marg: And sausages was her way of sort of, you know, you know, um, how that... news chief Charlie wants to make it a sort of backyard barbecue vibe.

Lisa: Yeah, Charlie, Tate the backyard barbecue.

Marg: Or maybe, I don't know.

Lisa: So, in the first podcast, Leigh says to me, Hey, Lisa, why do you think Evelyn wants her to eat sausages so much? And I said, man, we've got this powerful television drama, and you want me to talk about sausages. I mean, I don't know why she wants them to eat sausages.

Marg: It is intriguing I agree. I should have, um, dug down on the sausages.

Leigh: It was kind of, Evelyn was being so passive aggressive about it, because Kay's like, no thanks, I don't want the sausages. Oh, but darling, you must have the sausages and chips.

Lisa: This could be the unanswered question of this entire podcast.

Marg: I know. I know. You can get your viewers to send in their suggestions.

Leigh: Marg, this world of the 80s newsrooms and newsreaders, you must have had to study this a little bit because you famously, many years ago, were known for being the person who did the Jana Wendt impersonation.

Marg: Yes. It's sort of came full circle, didn't it? I, I was in those make up rooms with a lot of those, both at the ABC when I was doing Degeneration and also Fast Forward. That whole vibe of the news was something that, you know, I was pretty familiar with, even though, and, although I was sort of satirising it, I suppose you could say. Um, well I was, no doubt about it. Um, yeah.

Leigh: So can you give us, can you still do Jana?

Marg: I can do Jana. And here's something I prepared earlier.

Leigh: Oh, Marg.

Lisa: What a treat.

Leigh: You legend.

Marg: Thanks for joining us I’m Jana Wendt. Tonight, the extraordinary story of two gun journalists who decide to host a companion podcast. We look at the dramas behind the scenes and ask, can best friends successfully work together? Also, I'll be offering advice on how to improve their interview techniques. Join me with Lisa Millar and Leigh Sales after the break.

She hasn't disappeared from my psyche.

Lisa: That is so brilliant. You met her, didn't you? What was her reaction?

Marg: I met her at the Logies and she was absolutely lovely, charming, wasn't offended, um, I, my sister worked in the Current Affair office  in Melbourne, just coincidentally. So she had a bit of intel, um, that Jana, you know, she liked the impersonation. She, she didn't mind it at all. She thought it was good and she was absolutely lovely.

Leigh: It's kind of flattering, isn't it? If you've made it big enough that you've got your own impersonation.

Lisa: Did everyone feel that way, though?

Marg: No, no, no, no. There were other people who would write in saying, How dare you? This is not appropriate.

Lisa: Oh, really? Oh can you tell us who?

Marg: Yeah. I won't mention names. No, but yeah.

Lisa: In episode three that we've just seen, Evelyn tips off a gossip columnist about Helen's mental health issues. Have you ever had to deal with tabloids yourself?

Marg: I have. Oh, there was a ripper. Um, what happened was I was getting married and I was offered quite a lot of money for the sneak peeks of the wedding ceremony. And, uh, but it was only, it was just my family, my husband, uh, I think there were about 20 people in, in, in the church.

And I wrote back to them saying, no, look, this is a very private affair and thanks very much for the offer, but no, thank you. And we just had a small party at my parents that night. And, uh, sure enough, you know. This paparazzi person jumped out from behind the bushes, put the snap of the wedding in the magazine with a quote, they didn't even ask me, you know, it was Marg says she's deliriously happy.

I mean, okay, I was, but you know..

Lisa: You could probably bet on that.

Marg: you could bet on that and uh, I should have taken the money

Leigh: Um, one of our other favourite characters in the show is tea-and-3-sugars Cheryl, the make up artist. Can you tell us a bit about that awkward scene in episode two, where Cheryl comes around to ask Evelyn if Evelyn's the leak?

Cheryl: Oh, you didn't pass that on, did you? Sorry? Last night.

Evelyn: Cheryl, I would never! You can't exploit a family's tragedy like that.

Cheryl: Oh, I know. Of course not.

Evelyn: I was shocked that you would even...

Cheryl: No, no, I'm not saying that.

Evelyn: Well, what are you saying?

Cheryl: Um, uh, sorry, I don't know. Um, I must be just... Sorry, I must just still be a bit rattled or... Can we just... Hey, oh, I had a really good idea, um, for a hairstyle for the, uh, Variety Club luncheon.

Evelyn: Oh well, we'll see.

Marg: Goodness, it was just wonderful to work with her.

Lisa: Why? Tell us more, tell us..

Marg: And make her squirm.

Well, as Evelyn. It, it was just... Yeah. When you watch, when you watch the scene, I'm just so mean and cruel and it's obvious that I was the leak. Oh, we'll see, that we'll see, it's so cruel. And she only pays her 20 bucks. I don't know if you picked up on that. When I open my wallet, I just take out a 20 note and give her that. And she's sort of, is it worth it?

Lisa: Marg Downey, thanks so much for joining us today on the Newsreader podcast. It has been such a pleasure.

Marg: Thanks so much. It was lovely to meet you.

Leigh: To shift to something super shallow, what kind of stuff were you wearing when you started out as a TV news journo?

Lisa: Okay, I've got an embarrassing story because I used to wear Cue all the time with the big gold buttons. Yes, but you weren't the North Queensland reporter where it was 35 degrees and humidity of 110 percent.

I rotted the lining out of the inside of the jacket. What was I thinking? I'm out there doing stories about bush pig hunting and rainforests and I'm wearing a bright pink short sleeved Cue jacket with gold buttons.

Leigh: Wow, that's so funny. But that's what I was wearing too. I mean, as you correctly point out, I wasn't in far North Queensland, but I was in Queensland. So you'd be out at protest marches and things. And I was always wearing Cue. Cue must have been the shop of choice for young. Yeah. It was the uniform. Yeah. And so I'd be wearing suits as well. And as you say, I mean, I never. Rotted the lining out of mine, but you'd be sweating like anything and I just, now I look back and think, why weren't we comfortable just wearing a nice open neck shirt? But people didn't.

Lisa: Yeah, exactly.

Leigh: You wore the power suit when you were a TV journo.

Lisa: They've absolutely nailed all the outfits in this episode and the man behind them is Zed Dragojlovich and he joins us now. Zed, thanks for joining us.

Zed: Thank you.

Lisa: Can I just kick off straight away? Where are you getting the material from? Where are you getting these outfits?

Zed: I guess there's a different sort of method for each character. For example, say with Dale and Helen, we knew that they would be able to access the better range of fashion labels of the time because they would have had a network stylist. So, you know, the likes of Valentino, Ungaro, and then also Australian labels like say Covers or Carla Zampatti were quite fashionable then.

So that's why it was really good to look at Australian fashion magazines to see what was being worn in this country.

Leigh: Do you ever stumble across in your line of work, you'll be in a Vinnies or something, and you go Oh my god, it's an actual original Harry Who suit! I'm just gonna buy it because I might be able to use it for something!

Zed: Yes, uh. All the time. Less so now, I've got to say... A couple years ago it Those sort of finds were easy to come by. But even now, like the women working in the Salvos and the Red Cross, they've got their little, you know, iPhone out and they're, they're putting in, um, Valentino Ungaro. They've got an idea of how much things cost.

Um, but look, I certainly have picked up incredible vintage pieces for Next Nothing and they've, oh, sorry, love, it's 30. And I'm looking at it thinking, this is priceless. If I wanted to sell this, it would be, you know, 1000 dollars. There was one find just quickly. I had a buyer who rang me up and said, look, I know it's during work hours, but I've just found a Thierry Mugler purple suede suit.

Do you need it? And I said, no, we don't need a vintage 80s suede suit. I said, why don't you buy it? Just, you know, you buy it, keep it for yourself. She put it on, um, an auction site. She sold it for seven and a half thousand dollars. I think she bought it for, I think it was a lot, I think it was like a hundred dollars or something.

Lisa: Wow that is wild.

Zed: And I remember I said, what are you going to do with the money? She said, I'm going to fund my trip to Paris. So she took her and her boyfriend to Paris for two weeks.

Leigh: How fantastic.

Zed: From an op shop find. I think it was in Mordialloc..

Leigh: Oh, that's so fantastic.

Zed: There are great stories like that.

Lisa: That's the sound of everyone racing to Mordialloc. So, can I ask you about some specific outfits that we saw? That fabulous suit that Noelene pops up in, whether you call it pink or coral or salmon.

Zed: Salmon

Leigh: Salmon.

Lisa: Tell me what went into, uh, working out what you were going to put her in, and this is where Noelene is taking Helen's advice to kind of up the ante and really look like a producer and not a school girl.

Zed: It was our job basically to present her with, I guess, elements of the 80s. So I said, look, come into the office and just try on a whole heap of things. And quite often we collect things in costume. And they don't end up on anyone's back, but they're references. So it might be a shoulder that we like, or it might be a lapel that we like.

I kind of refer to it as Frankenstein designing. Cause you're kind of piecing together one thing from one jacket and another element from another piece. So look, she tried on a lot of really beautiful 80s suits, but they actually looked too contemporary. It's, I guess it's just to our eye now, large shoulder pads and oversized is reasonably fashionable.

Lisa: So what did you do?

Zed: So she tried on a lot of really lovely suits and a lot of ugly suits. And there was this quite nasty polyester taffeta with flock polka dots all over it. I haven't heard that word for ages.

And it was double breasted. And the shape was. Quite extreme. It had big shoulder pads. It had puffy sleeves, had a mutton leg sort of sleeve. So it's wide up the top and narrowed down the bottom. Then it double breasted and had this peplum that just came straight out from the waist, I hope everyone understands.

Lisa: Yes.

Zed: These terms, it actually came with a skirt. So and she said, this jacket is amazing. I said, okay, let's find a pant. I mean, she was really dead certain that it had to be a pantsuit. So we found like a really high waisted pant, part of another suit, which had a wide leg and a cuff. And I said, I think we've found our shape. We put the two together. She looked at the silhouette and said, this is amazing. And then I said, what colour do you want it to be? And she said, a color that you haven't used.

And obviously Helen being the news presenter. you know, gets the full colour range. And I thought, well, what's one colour she'd never wear? You know, I said, well, she'd never wear pink. And I just happened to have this sort of salmon, um, pink wool sitting there. And I said, what about in this? And we did it.

Leigh: Let's talk a bit about Marg Downey, who plays Evelyn. Can you drill down into her look for us and what you were going for there?

Zed: It was just about continuing, I guess, the DNA of that character, you know, very structured, precise tailoring.

Leigh: I was struck by her outfits that you never see any of her body. It's almost like armor, that kind of tailoring.

Zed: So we did try a few flowing things on Marg, and it just looked like somebody else.

Leigh: Right.

Zed: So when you're developing a character you, what you're looking for when you put the clothes on is something that kind of speaks really clearly about the character and then when you try something else and you feel like you've lost the essence of that character then you know you're going in the wrong direction.

Leigh: That's like real life too though, right? Which is that, you know, I sometimes look at things that my friends wear and I think you look fantastic in that. But if I showed up in that, everyone would go, Oh, Salesy's finally had that nervous breakdown we thought she was going to have.

Zed: But, but on that, um, for example, uh, you probably have a particular style that you wear every day, but.

Lisa: Pyjamas.

Zed: You allow yourself, but you would have a dress that you like to wear for a special event, or you might have your favourite coat or even just something you have sentimental attachment to. So that's in real life. You can, you use those tools in storytelling, but sometimes they can be quite distracting.

Lisa: Zed, with Marg Downey, she's been in television and on film for so long. Was there anything that came up from her past that helped?

Zed: When I was going around and looking for clothes, I had a friend of mine, Michael Chisholm, who's a costume designer, um, come and I was, as a creative consultant, I said, Michael, this is perfect for you. He did Chances, he did all of those big 80s shows.

So, I knew. One, he had a really good eye for the 80s, but I knew he had stock of all these clothes because he's a hoarder. And, um, we were in his warehouse. In Mordialloc, so that's, Mordialloc is obviously the place to be, um, going through his stock and I pulled out this amazing oversized houndstooth jacket. And he said, Zed, I made that for Marg back in the eighties. And we pulled it out and it had her name sewn in there.

Leigh: Oh no way.

Zed: So, um, I bought it to the fitting. And I said, Marg, I've got something special for you. And I pulled out the jacket and she shrieked. She remembered it.

Lisa: And because we're all now rushing to Mordialloc, because that's where apparently all the fashion kings go, I can tell everyone who's listening, it's about 25 kilometres south of Melbourne on the beaches. Never knew that that's where you could pick up some absolute gold. Zed, thank you so much for coming in and chatting.

Zed: No, thank you.

Leigh: So, presumably, next time, we're gonna see the wash up from this Kay tragedy. Yikes, that's gonna be intense for Geoff and Evelyn to come to terms with.

Lisa: Oh, absolutely, I'm dreading that. And I'm also thinking we've still got this kind of slow plod towards the big party.

Leigh: What, what big party?

Lisa: The Bicentennial, you doofus. It's what the whole series is about.

Leigh: Oh, that! Oh, God, right. Um, okay, well, if there's any other people out there that, um, you know, might enjoy the company of a doofus, apparently, like me and Lisa Millar, talking about The Newsreader, uh, let your friends know to come and join us and, um, and join this very fun conversation.

Lisa: Absolutely. You can follow us on the ABC Listen app. Find The Newsreader.

Leigh: And don't forget, you can catch up on the Newsreader TV series on ABC iView.

Lisa: Tell your friends.

Leigh: This podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation and the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. Thanks to our producer, Michele Weekes, and our executive producer, Alex Lollback. Sound engineer is Angela Grant, and the manager of ABC Podcasts is Monique Bowley.

Dale: I'm Dale Jennings. This has been News at Six.

Good night, Australia.

Floor Manager: And we're out!